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Fladbury - Worst result in living memory

FrankBagley

FrankBagley
Total Posts: 43
Joined: January 21, 2016

GirlingAS fished a match at Fladbury Saturday 13th November 2022 which resulted in the worst match in decades. 15 turned out, 6 weighed, 9 had dry nets after 5 hours and many didn't even have a squashed maggot, 13oz won the match.
The river had fined down after the spate and we saw very poor results pleasure fishing in the week, this on a stretch that normally teems with small Dace and Chub. The guys clearing the pegs in the week following the spate said that the mud cleared off the steps stunk of Crap.
This club was established around 1946 and this was easily the worst result on record. What the hell is happening to our rivers.
I would be very interested to here from anyone with Avon results on Saturday 13th November.

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Posted on November 14, 2021 at 8:58 PM

Rickb

Rickb
Total Posts: 60
Joined: February 16, 2019

Re: Fladbury - Worst result in living memory

Hello Frank, we had a club match at Pershore R/B Yesterday, a few weights around 6 to 9lb all small roach mainly, but 74lb won it. Barbel and a few Chub

Posted on November 14, 2021 at 9:26 PM

onelastcast

onelastcast
Total Posts: 819
Joined: July 4, 2015

Re: Fladbury - Worst result in living memory

Thats sad Frank, but not surprised as that stretch for some reason has been poor this season, despite having all the attributes.But other stretches of the Avon seem OK, so could be just a localised problem, however with such a drop in fish catch you just might want to contact the E.A?

Posted on November 15, 2021 at 12:00 PM

FrankBagley

FrankBagley
Total Posts: 43
Joined: January 21, 2016

Re: Fladbury - Worst result in living memory

Yes I will contact the EA.
Heard that a match the following day Sunday (14/11/21) at BAA Fladbury below the bridge (next stretch down) was similar, one sprat caught and 13 dry nets.
As Pershore Right Bank fished well it must be a local issue.

Posted on November 15, 2021 at 1:20 PM

MrChub

MrChub
Total Posts: 45
Joined: April 1, 2020

Re: Fladbury - Worst result in living memory

I don't know the stretch in question but if you follow the press and understand what is happening throughout our river system as a result of privatisation, deregulation, lack of enforcement and the recent observations for the work party I would locate the nearest sewage works outfall and under FOI get data on recent discharges.......

Posted on November 18, 2021 at 11:14 PM

FrankBagley

FrankBagley
Total Posts: 43
Joined: January 21, 2016

Re: Fladbury - Worst result in living memory

Hi Guys, we have learnt a bit more.

GirlingAS result Saturday 13/11/21, Fladbury Left Bank
15 fished, 9 blanked, won with a few bits.

Gornal match Sunday 14/11/21, Fladbury below the bridge
14 fished, 13 dry nets, one sprat caught.

Today's result Sunday 21/11/21 Fladbury below the bridge
Everyone struggled for bites.

We know that the problems started after fining down a couple of weeks before our match on the 13th November. Today (21/11/21) Glyn Marshall (Worc. AA) kindly conducted water tests and measured a phosphate level of 0.87, informing me that 0.3 is the norm. That's over 20 times greater than the norm after 3 weeks from first noticing we had an issue.
Girling AS have notified the E.A of these measurements but heard nothing from them so far.

Posted on November 21, 2021 at 4:39 PM

Johnny_Care

Johnny_Care
Total Posts: 407
Joined: June 10, 2015

Re: Fladbury - Worst result in living memory

You won't hear anything from the EA, as they simply don't care, and are responsible for the problems anyway. There are fish to be had after dark, the chub are at it once the light goes, and a friend of mine managed two doubles (barbel) there last night.

Posted on November 21, 2021 at 5:22 PM

Re5erv0irReg

Re5erv0irReg
Total Posts: 680
Joined: September 18, 2020

Re: Fladbury - Worst result in living memory - Testing of Water Quality

Hi Frank
That was interesting that you had Glyn Marshall from the Worcester AA carry out a water sampling to test the level of Phosphate in the River!

I am now of the opinion that we as an Association should ask that Craig Williams and the Fisheries team as well as the Bailiffs to have the necessary equipment that Glyn Marshall had to allow our own people to conduct theses tests throughout the length and breadth of our Waters to help ourselves establish our facts to then put before the politicians / Government.

I shall copy and paste this to send to the BAA admin as something needs to be done.

Keep on Fishing

Posted on November 21, 2021 at 5:39 PM

FrankBagley

FrankBagley
Total Posts: 43
Joined: January 21, 2016

Re: Fladbury - Worst result in living memory

Hello Reg,
That response was totally unexpected and is extremely encouraging, many feel that the BAA don't care about our fisheries, but the question is having the evidence how do you effect change.
We have a problem at Fladbury and generally throughout the network of rivers clubs like ours don't know where to turn to. As anglers concerned about the condition of our rivers we have to get together to try to sort it out.
The BAA is the major association in the Midlands and they and all concerned need to get together and take the authorities on before it is gone, in my view the BAA should be taking the lead.
Glyn Marshall spent the day measuring water quality at Fladbury and he has my respect and thanks but can't achieve anything alone.
We know that water companies can empty raw sewage into our rivers ignoring high financial penalties and they will destroy our fisheries in no time at all.
Are we going to watch it happen???

Posted on November 21, 2021 at 7:34 PM

FrankBagley

FrankBagley
Total Posts: 43
Joined: January 21, 2016

Re: Fladbury - Worst result in living memory

I'm encouraged by a Girling member to add that there are 8 sewage inlets between Evesham and Fladbury, 2 are water authority the others are private.
The two water authority inlets pumped raw sewage into the river for 511 hours in 2020, there is no data for the 6 private sewage inlets???
Makes you wonder if there is any control at all.

Posted on November 21, 2021 at 7:59 PM

MrChub

MrChub
Total Posts: 45
Joined: April 1, 2020

Re: Fladbury - Worst result in living memory

As I've noted before, we have the legislative framework to stop this, but it needs policing effectively. The EA is the body charged with enforcement, but is a hamstrung by inadequate resourcing, a flawed threshold of (financial) cost benefit analysis to trigger action, and management either crisis-managing or browbeaten into atrophy by a combination of growing problems and no means to respond effectively. The Southern Water prosecution this summer was an outlier brought about by the tenacity of an EA employee who 'went rogue' as far as the EA approach was concerned.

We allow water companies to self-report, and as Frank notes 6 of the 8 sewage outlets impacting the section do not belong to water companies but are private. Who reports on these and who monitors the reports? We know that the EA are not set up to police this data effectively and sample selectively. They rarely if ever challenge what they are told (Southern Water eventually being the exception); it’s a product of the under-resourcing and a sign that as a society we are not seen to value what they are tasked to do.

We live in a ‘day to day’ age where our political masters (who allocate resources and in effect determine approaches) work on the react principle as measured by polling. Where there is no significant immediate impact they leave things as they are. Only when there are signs of mass concern do they come out with the 'we take this matter very seriously' homily and are seen to 'do something'. The 'something' (or somethin if its Priti Patel) is knee jerk, one off, non-strategic and designed for maximum immediate impact with little thought (or care) for longer term effects. That Frank is the is ‘the control’.

Its easy to blame the EA Johnny Care and yes they could do more but the real culprit is (lack of) government. If you pursue a small government, deregulation, low tax agenda, its an inevitable and predictable consequence. As The Chief Exec of the EA noted to the parliamentary select committee 12 or so months ago, we get the environment we are prepared to pay for.

So what can we (as anglers, angling clubs and those who understand and care about such matters) do? We can make a fuss; in the press, social media, write to our MPs and be a nuisance. We can and should collect evidence, as Glyn Marshall has done and note that 3 weeks after the effects were noticed (and therefore had been diluted) the phosphate levels were 3x the norm. We need to seek information through FOI as Frank has highlighted the 511 hours of (reported) sewage discharge in 2020 from a quarter of the known outlets affecting the area, and link this to readings and reports of concern. A causal link has to be established to satisfy legal tests. We may deduce that the causes match up with reported effects but it is not enough; we need to demonstrate cause and effect to a legal standard.

If and when we have this we can think about mounting a private prosecution against the offenders. This takes leadership, commitment, organisation and money. It could come either from a combination of dedicated individuals with some financial backing or perhaps an interested organisation such as BAA or an alliance of angling clubs and other conservation and environmental groups. Its neither quick nor cheap but it is the only way that the issue is going to be effectively tackled unless or until we have a government that once again is prepared to take responsibility for matters.

So BAA are you prepared to begin the process.......? There are 4 BAA members here who feel moved to comment, and I guess many more that are concerned including 2 from Girling AC and Worcester AA, that's a start. Why not see what the appetite is amongst BAA members and take sounding from other Midlands clubs? All it would take to start with is a few calls, emails and a post on the forum to see who would support this approach. Its got to be better than moaning and reluctantly accepting....

Posted on November 22, 2021 at 10:22 AM

RiverNovice

RiverNovice
Total Posts: 373
Joined: August 21, 2018

Re: Fladbury - Worst result in living memory

I would suggest that voting for brexit and leaving the EU has made things worse when it comes to whats allowed to be discharched into our rivers ? Had we still been in the EU then this goverment and the water companys would of been taken to court and could of faced large fines.

I think every knows how Borris and his tory goverment feels about the EU and its laws, rules and regulations .

If you take global warming and we get more flooding in our rivers . Even more sewerage will be pumped in to our rivers and waterways simply because it will be easier for water companys to discharge it in to the rivers ,instead of allowing it to back up and enter peoples homes .

You only have to look at whats happening to the river Wye with the amount of discharge that is happening now with whats being allowed to enter the Wye from chicken farms.

Water companys answer to share holders and not to people who use our rivers and waterways for sport and leisure pursuits

http://ec.europa.eu/environment/water/water-framework/info/intro_en...

Posted on November 22, 2021 at 4:37 PM

MrChub

MrChub
Total Posts: 45
Joined: April 1, 2020

Re: Fladbury - Worst result in living memory

River Novice you may have point about Brexit and leaving the EU but the UK had a habit of ignoring EU directives for many years (the clean air directive is a good example). I think that this is an unproductive cul de sac. It's not what is allowed to be discharged into our rivers, sewage discharges except in exceptional emergencies are NOT allowed and haven't been since pre WW2. It's allowing (through neglect of responsibility and lack of action) bodies who have control over what goes into rivers to do so unencumbered by failing to enforce the law.

The more frequent the unchallenged events, the greater the frequency, because it is cheap, largely ignored and history suggests, has no evidence of (financial) consequence. You are right about who water companies answer to - their shareholders and delivering shareholder value - which is why unless someone introduces an effective counter balance - government, alliances of interest groups or even well organised individuals - nothing will change.

My point is that the mechanism exists, through the legislative framework to compel change but unless some 'body' picks up the the challenge and follows through, nothing will disturb the status quo.

Posted on November 22, 2021 at 5:21 PM

RiverNovice

RiverNovice
Total Posts: 373
Joined: August 21, 2018

Re: Fladbury - Worst result in living memory

This might be worth a read ? A debate in Parliament on the 15th November 2021 on the state of our rivers and the discharge of sewage in our rivers.

http://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2021-11-15/debates/21111537000...

Posted on November 23, 2021 at 11:41 AM

MrChub

MrChub
Total Posts: 45
Joined: April 1, 2020

Re: Fladbury - Worst result in living memory

River Novice, it IS worth a read and thanks for bringing it to our attention. For those without the
time or interest to plough through it, what does it tell us?

1. There are lots of contributory factors at work here (non-porous road and driveways, building regs which permit mixing waste water with rainfall, lack of record keeping about septic tank locations and also poultry units of up to 30k birds on the Wye catchment) all of which point to lack of joined government and inadequate public records. However the main cause remains the water companies and weak enforcement.
2. Lack of investment in infrastructure (but nearly £60bn taken out of the sector for shareholders
since privatisation which could have been better used for investment if the companies had never been privatised or returned to public ownership AT NO EXTRA COST.)
3. Nothing new is being permitted in the Environment Act. We retain the existing legal framework
which does not permit sewage discharges except in 'exceptional' circumstances. the problem is that the regulator appears powerless/unwilling to take action - Brexit induced chemical shortages triggered the EA ‘relaxing’ the permitted thresholds for discharges in the last year.
4. 11 EA prosecutions of water companies for illegal discharges in 4 years (yet over 400.000 self-
reported illegal discharges in 2020 alone). 4 of these resulted in fines of under £50k which to
multinational institutions does not even register. Half the longest illegal discharges in 2002 came
from United Utilities which has not faced a prosecution since 2018.
5. Robust independent research suggests that water companies under report discharges by up to
10x.

All this is wholly consistent with the information on this thread and others on the forum. This
evidence was presented on 15 November. An arttcle from the Guardian dated 19.11.21
takes matters further because as soon as the reality of a tougher stance by regulators and tighter
reporting becomes a reality suddenly water companies report they can’t comply. (I tried to upload a copy but the forum won't take it!)

Such discharges explain illness reports amongst swimmers and paddleboarders, degradation of ecosystems resulting in loss of fish, their food sources and other wildlife and a loss of amenity. It also helps provide an additional £1.4bn p.a. for water company shareholders. (Illness, loss of habitat, wildlife and fish do not show on company accounts).

I stand by my analysis made in earlier posts. The biggest cause is water company behaviour and lack of enforcement. Relying on marking your own homework and under-resourced timidity from regulators only feeds increased illegal activity. Without some ‘body’ taking specific matters up and using the law to ensure compliance we cannot rely on the those tasked to protect our interests to do so.

A final thought. If fines imposed by the courts went back to the EA (as the body responsible for policing in the public interest rather than direct to the Treasury) it would provide both a renewed incentive to prosecute and finance adequate resource for effective enforcement.

Posted on November 23, 2021 at 5:32 PM

FrankBagley

FrankBagley
Total Posts: 43
Joined: January 21, 2016

Re: Fladbury - Worst result in living memory

Hi Guys, I think we have got to the bottom of it.

The E.A called me to discuss our Phosphate measurements take by Glyn Marshall (Worc. AA).
Note;- Glyn measured 0.87 at Jubilee Bridge and quoted 0.03 as the norm.

In conversation with the E.A I mentioned that there are 8 outfalls between Evesham and Fladbury with no data for the 6 private outfalls, She added that a Phosphate level of 0.1 is typical at Jubilee Bridge and they plan to take more measurements.
I pointed out that there has been a retirement complex built in Wood Norton in the last couple of years, that's a couple of miles upstream of Fladbury . The caller said that the complex is currently installing a new sewage system implying that the E.A knew there was a problem.
This is substantiated by a Fladbury Councillor who knew about the issue saying that raw sewage from the retirement complex has been pouring into the Avon for weeks.

My view is if the E.A new of the problem why did they not come up with a contingency plan, why sit back and let it happen?

Posted on November 25, 2021 at 8:56 PM

onelastcast

onelastcast
Total Posts: 819
Joined: July 4, 2015

Re: Fladbury - Worst result in living memory

That's crap Frank literally. how on Earth can raw sewage be pumped into the River? Well done for being so professional in your dealings with the EA.

Posted on November 26, 2021 at 3:25 PM

Re5erv0irReg

Re5erv0irReg
Total Posts: 680
Joined: September 18, 2020

Re: Fladbury - Worst result in living memory

Hello fellow d’anglers,
Since Frank Bagley first posted this message it has now had 930 views and 16 replies.
I did send my message with suggestions to Mr Williams our BAA Secretary the reply I have pasted in below;
“Sir,
Simply testing the water for phosphate is not the issue.
It’s there because it drains off the land whenever it rains.
Phosphate is a staple constituent of fertiliser and farmers use fertiliser on the land.
There is little or nothing you can do to prevent it getting into the river unless it’s completely banned.”
John Williams

I have just purchased this weeks copy of the AT on the front page under a NEWS headline it has a message that reads “We need to act NOW for the future of our fisheries”
Inside across pages 6 & 7 under the NEWS EXCLUSIVE Headline with quotes from Fergal Sharkey
Where he advocates us to contact our MP with a polite message begin with

Dear Sir / ?
I’m one of your constituents,
I am extremely concerned about the Sewerage and general contamination entering our inland waterways and eventually the Sea……

There is also mention of the following website to check how clean is your local river?
For the facts and figures on Everything from Chemical levels to Invertebrate life at:

http://environment.data.gov.uk/catchment-planning...

I would like to think that we as fishermen and the real protectors of our waterways and its immediate environment will now do the right thing and send messages to our Member of Parliament as suggested by Fergal Sharkey and that Mr Williams can find out what the current state
of the BAA waters are in?

Keep on Fishing

Posted on November 26, 2021 at 7:43 PM

MrChub

MrChub
Total Posts: 45
Joined: April 1, 2020

Re: Fladbury - Worst result in living memory

Reg,

Interesting post but as you’ll realise from the sources you’ve cited there are 3 separate strands to
the problem:
1. Run off from chemical fertiliser – which is a product of current UK farming practices and the unintended consequences of which are deemed the ‘acceptable’ price we pay for ‘efficient’ food
production. The impact of this is monitored by citizen scientists and investigated by the EA where the impacts are apparent. There is no routine monitoring of the daily impact of this that I am aware of.
2. Discharges from animal husbandry – which are legally dealt with in various ways, stored in slurry pits (seepage and leakage issues) and then supplement chemical fertilisers (muck spreading) or otherwise processed (anaerobic digesters). Not all such units (e.g those with under 30000 birds) are subject to the regular inspection regime by the EA resources are such that ‘regular inspection’ can have 2 or more year intervals.
3. Human sewage disposal, which has been discussed earlier.

Whilst it is true that all of the above are subject to the EA inspection and enforcement regime, the
implication that the EA effectively monitors (and therefore safeguards) the position is not the case.

There are a host of reasons for this (again mentioned in earlier posts) and the environmental data
source you cite; whilst long on aspirations is largely deficient in up to date data. You might eventually be obtain this under FOI, but be prepared for a long wait. For the most part, up to data information on particular waterway s does not exist.

However the data source you do cite does generally classify the chemical measurement of surface water. It shows that in every single source of surface water in England ‘fails’ under chemical status, for groundwater 60% is classed poor or worse and for ecological status 80%+ is moderate to bad. This confirms the scope of the problem, which like climate change can only be addressed by massive changes in prevailing practices and vast investment, the effects of which are effectively monitored.

If you are a member of the Angling Trust (and if we care about the future of angling we all should be) on p76-77 of the latest free magazine ‘The Angler’, there is a very informative article about the River Wey, which has been blighted by persistent sewage discharges and other phosphate sources in recent years. The implications and detail of what happened at Fladbury is almost certainly explained in this article.

Posted on November 27, 2021 at 9:49 AM

FrankBagley

FrankBagley
Total Posts: 43
Joined: January 21, 2016

Re: Fladbury - Worst result in living memory

Yes John, Phosphate washes of the fields in times of bad weather but that has been true for decades. What's happening at Fladbury represents a step change and we have evidence of an E.A issue which they failed to contain. 5 matches at Fladbury have blanked, how much evidence do you need.

The Angling Trust rely upon Government funding and they are in bed with the E.A. I have asked the Angling Trust to explain their plans to turn this national travesty around and await their response. The Angling trust are very keen to let us all know how well they are doing in encouraging angling etc, but if they continue do nothing natural fisheries will die. I fear that this issue is too big for even the Angling Trust to turn around.

Denying there is an issue is actually part of the problem, does the BAA not realise that their assets are reducing in value. As the Midlands largest Angling Association isn't it time the BAA took the lead and represented the Association and there memberships best interests.

Posted on November 27, 2021 at 4:59 PM
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