Birmingham Anglers Association

Re: Stocking barbel in rivers

I don't really believe stocking Barbel in rivers is the right way forward, the Barbel need the right type of environment to be self sufficient, As you say the fry are just predated on, but that will always be the case with the hope that some will make it.

The lack of suitable gravel redds they need to spawn is a concern, and how they overcome all the obstacles in getting there too. Put the Otter into the equation, abstraction, and the extreme flooding in recent years they add to the problem, not to mention Angling pressure where many now prefer Barbel to Carp.

I like the wild aspect of Barbel fishing, thinking that the fish do travel a a fair bit and is not stocked like some Carp in a puddle. There were just probably too many Barbel in our Rivers at the peak, so it might just be natures way of thinning out stocks.

Re: Stocking barbel in rivers

you are right that unless the problems causing the declining recruitment are resolved, just adding more fish is a short term expensive waste of money. The Kennet has had the lot, supposed to a chalk stream but below Thatcham you wouldnt think so. It has had excessive abstraction, when the canal was extended they didnt, as promised dredge the canal, just opened it up and God only knows how many tons of silt entered the river. Crayfish, mainly signals although i believe across various rivers there are now about 6 different invasive species. Apparently a few cats appearing, cormorants by the score, a surprisingly large increase in otter numbers and a change in otter behavior. Otters main impact i can see is that they take the mature breeding stock, so less spawn, crays eat a bigger percentage, so less fry, cormorants an rainbow trout, non native, eat a bigger percentage of small to medium fish so Few make it to adulthood only to get nailed by otters.
A vicious circle of decline in my opinion although there is work by the EA, RDAA and others to try and turn the tide by recreating spawning grounds, fry sanctuaries along with some stocking. I wont see the day when you could catch doubles almost anywhere on the river, sometimes multiple fish, sometimes huge fish, but maybe there is a light at the end of a long dark tunnel..

Re: Stocking barbel in rivers

You make some good points Bob,

I fear that many Rivers that held Barbel will continue to deplete their stocks, however I probably like you just really fish for Barbel, but even so looking at the bigger picture I would rather see a healthy balanced river environment, even if it meant a decline in Barbel, however the situation you have outlined is typical of many rivers, but the Kennet is or should be a National Treasure, and the disgraceful miss management in all departments is a scandal.

We have mentioned many reasons, and add felling of trees too, well it seems that there is only lip service paid to conservation.

You may have heard about the £20m ploughed into the Shad 'problem', and the new viewing area in Diglis weir planned, all window dressing to fool the public, as was the Otter release. The public don't look at the real issues, such as water quality or invasive species such a Crays, that can be hidden.

Profits for the foreign owned water companies are all that matters, I would vote in a hearbeat to privatise these companies, and install managers that would lawfully have to mantain the system.

Re: Stocking barbel in rivers

You make some good points Bob,

I fear that many Rivers that held Barbel will continue to deplete their stocks, however I probably like you just really fish for Barbel, but even so looking at the bigger picture I would rather see a healthy balanced river environment, even if it meant a decline in Barbel, however the situation you have outlined is typical of many rivers, but the Kennet is or should be a National Treasure, and the disgraceful miss management in all departments is a scandal.

We have mentioned many reasons, and add felling of trees too, well it seems that there is only lip service paid to conservation.

You may have heard about the £20m ploughed into the Shad 'problem', and the new viewing area in Diglis weir planned, all window dressing to fool the public, as was the Otter release. The public don't look at the real issues, such as water quality or invasive species such a Crays, that can be hidden.

Profits for the foreign owned water companies are all that matters, I would vote in a hearbeat to privatise these companies, and install managers that would lawfully have to mantain the system.

Re: Stocking barbel in rivers

They're not native to the Severn, Avon, Teme or Wye and not only should they not be stocked, I'd happily see them exterminated.

Re: Stocking barbel in rivers

They're not native to the Severn, Avon, Teme or Wye and not only should they not be stocked, I'd happily see them exterminated.

Re: Stocking barbel in rivers

Looks like round 2 starting seriously though eredicating barbel would take away a lot of enjoyment for a good portion of anglers myself included but we are all entitled to our opinions

Re: Stocking barbel in rivers

native or not, they are here to stay and they are fished for probably as much as carp .
there are much bigger problems than what fish we have in our rivers.

Re: Stocking barbel in rivers

Exterminate...Exterminate!!

Barbel are native to the British Isles, so that sits OK with me, Zander are not Carp too were introduced by the Monastries,

As said the problem lies with how our waters are managed.

Re: Stocking barbel in rivers

It always amazes me the way that people are dead set against non native species like zander until you point out that their precious barbel aren't native to the waters they fish. I really would rather see the Evern system in its natural state with forrested headwater ares, no weirs and and the erradication of non-native flora and fauna, but as has been said, thats never going to happen.

Similar reactions can be had from those dead against livebaiting by simply pointing out that maggots and worms are livebaits too

Re: Stocking barbel in rivers

It always amazes me the way that people are dead set against non native species like zander until you point out that their precious barbel aren't native to the waters they fish. I really would rather see the Evern system in its natural state with forrested headwater ares, no weirs and and the erradication of non-native flora and fauna, but as has been said, thats never going to happen.

Similar reactions can be had from those dead against livebaiting by simply pointing out that maggots and worms are livebaits too

Re: Stocking barbel in rivers

It is all interesting, though non native species have taken over lots of areas of the animal world, grey squirrels and signal crayfish for instance. Like it or not, we're stuck with them.

I agree with Johnny, barbel stocks in the Severn do seem to be declining. Though as a consequence, the average size is increasing.

There are so many factors to affect the survival rates of fry that could account for stocks dropping.

I'd be interested to hear from other barbel anglers - I've hardly ever caught small barbel - less than 2lb say on the Severn. And yet last Summer did get a few out that were just 3-5ozs. Has anyone else caught similar lately? Is it possible they are the result of a successful spawning year and will boost stocks?

As said it would be great to hear if others have experienced the same.

Re: Stocking barbel in rivers

I didnt have any fingerling barbel last season, but i did have one or two last season that were less than 2lb, I had one from the WA, and three or four, surprisingly from the Lower Severn.

Re: Stocking barbel in rivers

I have to agree that the average weight has increased for me personally I had never caught a double until xmas 2012 ,after that up until last season I couldn't stop catching them on a regular basis .But apart from a few in September I struggled to catch any barbel at all last season

Re: Stocking barbel in rivers

Always a joy catching small Barbel, don't think there is a cuter looking fish, sort of want to take them home.

But it's a bit of a concern so few seem to show up, which is probably testament that recruitment is poor, larger fish are more the norm now which perversely is not what we really want, these older fish will die off and we will then have a real problem,

I remember you saying about those small fish John, and yet you broke the Double Lower drought with for someone as good an angler as you that was a weird unwanted monkey on your back.

I don't class myself as a good Barbel angler, I get too bored, and chop and change my bait rigs too much I guess, but I have been lucky in getting the odd big lump for all my failings.

Even if I have to share to odd fish with Mr Care.

Re: Stocking barbel in rivers

iv had a good few small ones out the teme last year so thats good

Re: Stocking barbel in rivers

I wonder if the Severn will in time go the way of the Kennet. Back in the 70's and 80's the Kennet had big roach and vast numbers of Barbel, but few big fish. A good fish then was 6 or 7 lb, very very few doubles ever caught mostly 1-4lbs, loads of Dace etc. in recent years dace and roach vanished (cormorants?) and Barbel got big. i used to average around 70% doubles in my Barbel captures until about 4 years ago when numbers appeared to crash (otters/age ?) not too many of the small 2 or 3 lb fish. There was quite good recruitment in Osier stream and i watched a guy 1 day catching loads of fish up to maybe 1/2 lb below a weir.
In the Severn's favour is its a big river so predation will hopefully have less impact. and i dont think there are crays in there eating the spawn and fry. Would still like to see all inland cormorants dispatched though, they get through a vast tonnage of fish.

Just realised what a disjointed ramble i have just written guess its my age lol.

Re: Stocking barbel in rivers

To be fair, the lack of small barbell in the Severn probably has a lot to do with the total wipeout of he streamer weed a few years back.
Nowhere to hide and less available food isn't a good formula for recruitment of fry.
Now that the weed has recovered, I don't doubt that he barbell will recover.

Re: Stocking barbel in rivers

Bob I'm intrigued do you live down south and travel to the midlands to fish or do you live in the midlands area ?

Re: Stocking barbel in rivers

I was a member of Petwrorth Angling who had/have stretches of the Rother in Sussex. One stretch has a head of barbell which go quite big. The problem was that there were not many in the rest of the river so the one stretch got hammered week in week out.

Like the Teme it was a river that flooded a lot, unfortunately when it did it carried loads of sand which covered up the gravel bottom which had been there years before. It wasn't ideal spawning grounds but the barbell did breed because I caught a couple at less than a pound.

EA funded work to create gravel spawning area and faster water to wash the sand away in localised areas but last I heard the fish were still sticking mainly to the one stretch.

That's a long winded way of saying if the fish like a spot they might stick around the area they are introduced to if it is well chosen.

Good luck to the club introducing the fish, somebody doing something positive to improve their fishing. You never know it might catch on.